On
Mitchell Quintet with special guest Fred Anderson played a successful benefit
concert for Blue Lake Fine Arts Camp at the Wealthy Theatre in
Rapids
performance, with Mitchell on sopranino and alto
saxophones plus the C flute, Fred Anderson tenor saxophone, Craig Taborn, piano, Harrison Bankhead,
bass, and Vincent Davis, drums, was recorded for future broadcast by both Blue
Lake Public Radio and GRTV/The Community Media Center of Grand Rapids. The
concert tapes will be archived at the Jazz Institute of Chicago collective at
the
This concert was part of Blue Lake Public Radio’s 20th anniversary season. See
www.bluelake.org.
The following interview was excerpted for radio broadcast over WBLV FM 90.3 (
and the
Rapids
Vega is Blue Lake Public Radio’s jazz director since 1983.
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Mitchell and Anderson played two concerts together in
before this
appearance. The first, last Fall at
The Velvet Lounge (see http://www.velvetlounge.net), and the second this Spring
at Hot House, a celebration of
70th birthday.
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Fred Anderson at home in
May 15, 2002.
Lazaro Vega: Do you remember whose idea it was to do
the concerts with Roscoe Mitchell?
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Fred Anderson: Whose idea it was? Well, I remember, basically it was my idea to
play with Roscoe. We hadn’t played together in a long time. I think we played
together in a jam session years ago. So we had played together. But it was my
idea.
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When he finally said he was coming I suggested that we play together.
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playing that you thought might go with what you do?
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FA: I’ve been listening to Roscoe for a long time. But it’s not that. I just
thought it would be a good bill. It turned out nice. It was a good idea because
he hadn’t played at The Velvet before, and I hadn’t played with him.
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So this is how we — the word got around (laughs). That’s the funny thing about
that particular night — we had a packed house. People were lined up all
outside. I don’t know if you’ve ever been to my place or not…but anyway, you
know it’s not very big. It holds about, comfortably it holds 175 people. The
place was packed that particular night.
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thing I talked to Roscoe about that maybe you would comment on was as a
saxophone player. In the post-John Coltrane/Albert Ayler
continuum you’ve found a way that is different than many other free horn
players. I mean you don’t use overtones as much, or split tones or false
registers like your good friend Kidd Jordan, who has a tendency to play in the
high false register of the tenor often. And Roscoe, too.
Roscoe has a way of controlling glissandos, and doing things that are
“off” the horn in a sense, even though he makes them on the
horn.� You’ve always found your own way.
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FA: Well, (chuckles), since you mention that you’ve got to remember: at the time
that the AACM was formed, I was a little older than the guys, you know. I was
probably, me and another guy named John Jackson, we
were pretty much around about the same age, maybe: maybe he was a little
younger than me, or we were about the same age.
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And you’ve got to remember I had seen Charlie Parker play, and Lester Young. All those people. These guys (the early AACM musicians) were
just a little too young. And they came up and they heard, you know, Coltrane.
Most of ‘em were into Coltrane. So I listen to ‘Trane, too, but I started out listening to Lester Young and
Charlie Parker — those were the people who inspired me to play music.
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before Sonny Rollins and John Coltrane show —.
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FA: — Well see Sonny was around; he made a record with Charlie Parker, with
Miles.
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That’s one of the things you know what I mean? I can do all these things that
you’re just saying, you know, there’s all the talented players. I can do all of
those things, too. I understand all of them. But I don’t make that my primary
thing when I’m playing.
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It’s good. It’s all right. Ain’t nothin‘
wrong with it.�
It makes a good contrast.
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That’s the way I’m doing it because that was my roots. That’s probably the
reason I play like I play. But I understand and I’ve done a
lot of things in that vein, even with Kidd
not.
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of Bird and Lester and the way they played to stretch out and play longer
solos?
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FA: It was a continuation of what they were doing. Like I say, when I first
heard Ornette Coleman, I think he was the first one
that had nerve enough to take the music with that concept, but then had his own
concept, too. But he really got it from Charlie Parker. See? When I heard Ornette Coleman back in those days, back in the early
1960’s, I knew exactly what he was doing. It wasn’t strange to me. I knew
exactly where he was coming from.
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So Roscoe, he was playing like Ornette Coleman at one
time. He jumped on the Ornette Coleman thing. Which was good. So he knows about all of that.
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precepts of the AACM:� you have to be
familiar with the entire history and evolution of the music.
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FA: Right! Right, and he was hip to it. I don’t know, he had probably heard a lot of Charlie Parker. But I was
around. I seen Charlie Parker in person the last time he was in
So I was really deep into him, more so than those guys. They didn’t have the
experience of watching him because they were a little too young.� They just missed him. That’s right.
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Kidd
catch him. But he was very young. He caught him when Charlie Parker was with
Stan Kenton. We were talking about that. He heard Bird at that particular
time.� Kidd
is a little younger than I am.
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What did you think of John Litweiler’s comment
in the Jazz Times magazine about you being the foremost underground,
avant-garde tenor sax player today?
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FA: Oh yeah, that was a good article. We had a nice talk. Yeah, yeah, yeah that
was cool. That was all right. I mean, you know, that’s the way he’s seen it. I
know John. John’s a good friend. We’ve talked a lot about the music and I think
he understands. The article as a whole was a good article.
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those guys are fine, but you’re the man in terms of cutting the edge.
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FA: Right. That was a very good article. Because I’ve always tried to keep the
root position most of the time, and then do some of the things I’ve been able
to hear myself, then interpret it and keep the concept going.
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together as improvised sets from the get go, and that when a tune comes up you
have such good ears you just jump in and go.
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FA:� (Laughs) Well, yeah, that’s really
what it’s all about. You know Roscoe, he’s been around a long time, he’s
studied the music and he’s played some Charlie Parker. He recorded some of
Charlie Parker’s music. So he pretty much knows what’s happening with the horn
and what’s happening with the music. We really can just play and enjoy
ourselves.
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He and I both have been putting ourselves in a lot of different positions,
different settings to play. We had never really played like that before, but it
all came together.
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playing in the bass, drums, and tenor saxophone format. Is that your preferred
instrumentation?
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FA: Well, yeah, I like that, but I’ve made records with piano players. You’ve
got the record called “Birdhouse” (Okka
Disk). There’s a young piano player named Jim Baker. Then I made another record
with a piano player in
called (ED? uncertain spelling) Didier Grushnager. We
did a trio called “Neighbours.” That was
the first piano player that I ever played with. Then I made a record with
Marilyn Crispell, that’s right, “Destiny”
on Okka and later with Bradley Parker-Sparrow,
“Chicago Chamber Music” on Southport Records. Those are pretty much
seminal.
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So piano players – I have nothing against piano players. The reason I’m playing
with smaller groups, like a trio and a quartet, is now I’ve got a young guitar
player around here named Jeff Parker. You know that Asian Improv
Record? (ED: The Fred Anderson Quartet, Volume 2 from the year 2000).� Because he hears the music
right away.� I can play with him
because he has such good ears and he picks up on it for a youngster.
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LV:� Charlie Parker was such a genius on
all levels of music, yet he seemed to be dealing mostly with blues, popular
song form harmony from “I Got Rhythm” and such, and when Ornette came on the scene it seemed like he said, ‘We’re
going start in this key but if I modulate to another key I want you all to
follow me.’ Isn’t that the way Ornette was working
there?
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FA:� Well, Charlie Parker was basically
doing the same thing. (Laughs) So he wasn’t doing anything that Charlie Parker
wasn’t doing. The only thing about it is with Ornette
the rhythm probably interacted with him more so than with Charlie Parker. The
rhythm interacted with him more with Ornette’s music,
like Ed Blackwell and all of ‘em, the drummers. But
it was basically the same thing.
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form that goes right back to Bird when you’re soloing?
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FA:� Well, you can’t do it that way, not
exactly the way he did it, but you can keep that in mind. If
you get around musicians that can hear you, like drummer Hamid
Drake. I’ve made most of my records with him because we kind of built this
thing up together. Actually he and I were the ones who started this whole
particular thing. I have to give him a lot of credit, too, because he was able
to do it since we started. I was the one who introduced him to Ed Blackwell
years ago.
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you guys is “The Missing Link” (Nessa).
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FA: Right! See now that’s what I was talking about. So
we were sort of into that like a spin off of Ornette
then, but we did it our way. Hamid Drake is very
important in my music. In fact together it’s almost like Billy Strayhorn and Duke Ellington.
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It sounds like, with people lining up out the door, The Velvet Lounge
has a very successful music policy, especially during the Chicago Jazz Festival
– you couldn’t even get into your club after hours it was so packed.� Do you think the
jazz scene is particularly good right now for the kind of music you like to
play?
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FA: Yes, it’s good because we’ve got a lot of varieties of things going on now
so you have choices. The same people go around and hear all different music.
The people there at The Empty Bottle come over to The Velvet, and The Velvet
goes over to The Empty Bottle. It’s vise-versa. Then we’ve got The Hot House.
The last concert Roscoe and I did was at The Hot House which is a much bigger
place than my place, and it was packed. It was a birthday celebration, and all
the major newspaper writers were there. In fact I got a good article off of
Howard Reich (Chicago Tribune). In fact Howard Reich just called me today, just
before you did. He was asking me some things about an article he’s going to
write in the next couple of days.
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Then Chicago Sun Times writer Lloyd Sachs wrote the liner notes to the record
we did, the last duet record I did, with drummer Robert Barry (Duets 2001: Live
at the Empty Bottle, Thrill Jockey). That was a nice record done right on the
spot. I had played with Robert a bit. That was our second or third time playing
together. We had always pretty much traveled the same road.
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FA: “Off Blue” (laughs), oh yeah, “Off Blue.”� That’s interesting.
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The record that a lot of people kind of sleep on is that one I did with Steve
McCall, “Vintage Duets” (Okka Disc). That’s
one of the classics, I believe. One of the things is because it was Steve
McCall, and another thing is because we had been playing together a long time.
We were commissioned to do that record but it never came out and I had the
tape, and I finally got it out 15 years later.
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at the Chicago Jazz Festival with Steve McCall.
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FA: Oh, you were there? The last one? He had just had
a stroke, and that’s why I had to do the last tune a Capella.
He walked off the stage. I didn’t realize it at the time, but then after I
thought about it – I never said anything about it and we never really talked
about it, but he had a stroke just before that. Then he had another stroke and
that was the one that took him out.
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FA: Oh yeah. He was. We had been friends for a long time. I used to have him
over to my house out in
him and his wife and kids years ago. We did a lot of socializing together, too.
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ones in or from Chicago, especially saxophone players. Did you know Gene Ammons?
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FA: I met Gene Ammons right after he got out of
prison. I used to see him all the time, but I really got a chance to meet him
when he got out of prison. He was playing out on the South Side, and I went out
to see him play. When I got out there he was sick. I had a mouthpiece I wanted
to give him because I knew he was the only one who could play this particular
mouthpiece. I missed him and didn’t get a chance to give it to him. The next
thing I know he’s passed away.
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A drummer used to play with me named Ajaramu, he used to play with Gene Ammons
at the time that organist John Logan was in the band. Of course
passed away not long ago. Gene was using an organ player and drums at that
particular time and they were playing on
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beautiful historical locus for jazz,
Anyone who’s been around that scene for the last twenty years knows you made an
important contribution to that scene by keeping open a non-commercial venue
like The Velvet Lounge.
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FA: We always try to do that. Now we’ve got the jam session because that’s how
it started with The Velvet Lounge. Now every Sunday all of these young
musicians come around and play. I used to play on the jam session when Bill
Brimfield was here, but now I’ve got some younger guys here at the jam session
and they bring all of their friends so it’s movin‘
on.
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television program “E.R.” when they talked about going to the Velvet
Lounge? The characters kept saying, ‘don’t you want to go hear some jazz at the
Velvet Lounge? Let’s go hear some jazz’ but their busy jobs kept them from all
the fun.
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FA: Right. I heard about it.� Somebody
may have played a tape for me. That was good – it kind of helped us out a
little bit. At least they thought enough to write it into the script.
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